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| Posted: Mon Oct 24th, 2005 10:16 pm |
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1st Post |
Cosmeta
Administrator
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"In KEY TO THEOSOPHY, Blavatsky was asked about the period of time toward the
end of the twentieth century. She said that if Theosophy went the way of all human institutions--splintering and bickering about non-essentials--it would become just
another bit of flotsam and jetsam on the beaches of human religion. But if it did
its job well, it would give a language and basis for the coming revelations
of the late twentieth century. "
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25th, 2005 07:58 pm |
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2nd Post |
Anupadaka
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Csometa-san!
I have been looking for that quote, but I cannot find it in the Key to Theosophy. Do you have a page number, or chapter reference?
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26th, 2005 07:26 am |
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3rd Post |
Cosmeta
Administrator
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Anupadaka wrote: Csometa-san!
I have been looking for that quote, but I cannot find it in the Key to Theosophy. Do you have a page number, or chapter reference?
I am quoting a person from another forum, Anu.... That particular paragraph is probably not in The Keys to Theosophy as it stands, but is more than likely something the author was referring to.
I seem to recall the interviewer in Keys asking Blavatsky about what she saw for the future as far as how theosophical thought would fare in the continental United States. I recall her saying something to the effect that Americans will misuse the occult knowledge they recieve and try to capatilize upon it.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26th, 2005 09:03 am |
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4th Post |
Cosmeta
Administrator
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I do not have the book in front of me at the moment (this quote being taken from an online file); but here is an instance where Blavatsky is denouncing spiritualist, and/or mediumistic frauds by addressing some of the dangers of mediumistic spiritualist of her day:
"Q. Can you give an instance or instances to show why these practices should be regarded as dangerous?
A. This would require more time than I can give you. Every cause must be judged by the effects it produces. Go over the history of Spiritualism for the last fifty years, ever since its reappearance in this century in America-and judge for yourself whether it has done its votaries more good or harm. Pray understand me. I do not speak against real Spiritualism, but against the modern movement which goes under that name, and the so-called philosophy invented to explain its phenomena.
Q. Don't you believe in their phenomena at all?
A. It is because I believe in them with too good reason, and (save some cases of deliberate fraud) know them to be as true as that you and I live, that all my being revolts against them. Once more I speak only of physical, not mental or even psychic phenomena. Like attracts like. There are several high-minded, pure, good men and women, known to me personally, who have passed years of their lives under the direct guidance and even protection of high "Spirits," whether disembodied or planetary. But these Intelligences are not of the type of the John Kings and the Ernests who figure in seance rooms. These Intelligences guide and control mortals only in rare and exceptional cases to which they are attracted and magnetically drawn by the Karmic past of the individual. It is not enough to sit "for development" in order to attract them. That only opens the door to a swarm of spooks," good, bad, and indifferent, to which the medium becomes a slave for life. It is against such promiscuous mediumship and intercourse with goblins that I raise my voice, not against spiritual mysticism. The latter is ennobling and holy; the former is of just the same nature as the phenomena of two centuries ago, for which so many witches and wizards have been made to suffer. Read Glanvil and other authors on the subject of witchcraft, and you will find recorded there the parallels of most, if not all, of the physical phenomena of nineteenth century "Spiritualism."
Q. Do you mean to suggest that it is all witchcraft and nothing more?
A. What I mean is that, whether conscious or unconscious, all this dealing with the dead is necromancy, and a most dangerous practice. For ages before Moses such raising of the dead was regarded by all the intelligent nations as sinful and cruel, inasmuch as it disturbs the rest of the souls and interferes with their evolutionary development into higher states. The collective wisdom of all past centuries has ever been loud in denouncing such practices. Finally, I say, what I have never ceased repeating orally and in print for fifteen years: While some of the so-called "spirits" do not know what they are talking about, repeating merely-like poll-parrots-what they find in the mediums' and other people's brains, others are most dangerous, and can only lead one to evil. These are two self-evident facts. Go into Spiritualistic circles of the Allan Kardec school, and you find "spirits" asserting reincarnation and speaking like Roman Catholics born. Turn to the "dear departed ones" in England and America, and you will hear them denying reincarnation through thick and thin, denouncing those who teach it, and holding to Protestant views. Your best, your most powerful mediums, have all suffered in health of body and mind. Think of the sad end of Charles Foster, who died in an asylum, a raving lunatic; of Slade, an epileptic; of Eglinton-the best medium now in England-subject to the same. Look back over the life of D.D. Home, a man whose mind was steeped in gall and bitterness, who never had a good word to say of anyone whom he suspected of possessing psychic powers, and who slandered every other medium to the bitter end. This Calvin of Spiritualism suffered for years from a terrible spinal disease, brought on by his intercourse with the "spirits," and died a perfect wreck. Think again of the sad fate of poor Washington Irving Bishop. I knew him in New York, when he was fourteen, and he was undeniably a medium. It is true that the poor man stole a march on his "spirits," and baptized them "unconscious muscular action," to the great gaudiumof all the corporations of highly learned and scientific fools, and to the replenishment of his own pocket. But de mortuis nil nisi bonum; his end was a sad one. He had strenuously concealed his epileptic fits-the first and strongest symptom of genuine mediumship-and who knows whether he was dead or in a trance when the postmortem examination was performed? His relatives insist that he was alive, if we are to believe Reuter's telegrams. Finally, behold the veteran mediums, the founders and prime movers of modern spiritualism-the Fox sisters. After more than forty years of intercourse with the "Angels," the latter have led them to become incurable sots, who are now denouncing, in public lectures, their own life-long work and philosophy as a fraud. What kind of spirits must they be who prompted them, I ask you?"
You can find the book here also:
http://theosophy.org/tlobooks/key/KeyContents.htm
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26th, 2005 09:25 am |
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5th Post |
Cosmeta
Administrator
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Conclusion
The Future of the Theosophical Society
"Q. Tell me, what do you expect for Theosophy in the future?
A. If you speak of Theosophy, I answer that, as it has existed eternally throughout the endless cycles upon cycles of the Past, so it will ever exist throughout the infinitude of the Future, because Theosophy is synonymous with everlasting truth.
Q. Pardon me; I meant to ask you rather about the prospects of the Theosophical Society.
A. Its future will depend almost entirely upon the degree of selflessness, earnestness, devotion, and last, but not least, on the amount of knowledge and wisdom possessed by those members, on whom it will fall to carry on the work, and to direct the Society after the death of the Founders.
Q. I quite see the importance of their being selfless and devoted, but I do not quite grasp how their knowledge can be as vital a factor in the question as these other qualities. Surely the literature which already exists, and to which constant additions are still being made, ought to be sufficient?
A. I do not refer to technical knowledge of the esoteric doctrine, though that is most important; I spoke rather of the great need which our successors in the guidance of the Society will have of unbiased and clear judgment. Every such attempt as the Theosophical Society has hitherto ended in failure, because, sooner or later, it has degenerated into a sect, set up hard-and-fast dogmas of its own, and so lost by imperceptible degrees that vitality which living truth alone can impart. You must remember that all our members have been bred and born in some creed or religion, that all are more or less of their generation both physically and mentally, and consequently that their judgment is but too likely to be warped and unconsciously biased by some or all of these influences. If, then, they cannot be freed from such inherent bias, or at least taught to recognize it instantly and so avoid being led away by it, the result can only be that the Society will drift off onto some sandbank of thought or another, and there remain a stranded carcass to molder and die.
Q. But if this danger be averted?
A. Then the Society will live on into and through the twentieth century. It will gradually leaven and permeate the great mass of thinking and intelligent people with its large-minded and noble ideas of Religion, Duty, and Philanthropy. Slowly but surely it will burst asunder the iron fetters of creeds and dogmas, of social and caste prejudices; it will break down racial and national antipathies and barriers, and will open the way to the practical realization of the Brotherhood of all men. Through its teaching, through the philosophy which it has rendered accessible and intelligible to the modern mind, the West will learn to understand and appreciate the East at its true value. Further, the development of the psychic powers and faculties, the premonitory symptoms of which are already visible in America, will proceed healthily and normally. Mankind will be saved from the terrible dangers, both mental and bodily, which are inevitable when that unfolding takes place, as it threatens to do, in a hotbed of selfishness and all evil passions. Man's mental and psychic growth will proceed in harmony with his moral improvement, while his material surroundings will reflect the peace and fraternal goodwill which will reign in his mind, instead of the discord and strife which is everywhere apparent around us today.
Q. A truly delightful picture! But tell me, do you really expect all this to be accomplished in one short century?
A. Scarcely. But I must tell you that during the last quarter of every hundred years an attempt is made by those "Masters," of whom I have spoken, to help on the spiritual progress of Humanity in a marked and definite way. Towards the close of each century you will invariably find that an outpouring or upheaval of spirituality-or call it mysticism if you prefer-has taken place. Some one or more persons have appeared in the world as their agents, and a greater or less amount of occult knowledge and teaching has been given out. If you care to do so, you can trace these movements back, century by century, as far as our detailed historical records extend.
Q. But how does this bear on the future of the Theosophical Society?
A. If the present attempt, in the form of our Society, succeeds better than its predecessors have done, then it will be in existence as an organized, living, and healthy body when the time comes for the effort of the twentieth century. The general condition of men's minds and hearts will have been improved and purified by the spread of its teachings, and, as I have said, their prejudices and dogmatic illusions will have been, to some extent at least, removed. Not only so, but besides a large and accessible literature ready to men's hands, the next impulse will find a numerous and united body of people ready to welcome the new torch-bearer of Truth. He will find the minds of men prepared for his message, a language ready for him in which to clothe the new truths he brings, an organization awaiting his arrival, which will remove the merely mechanical, material obstacles and difficulties from his path. Think how much one, to whom such an opportunity is given, could accomplish. Measure it by comparison with what the Theosophical Society actually hasachieved in the last fourteen years, without any of these advantages and surrounded by hosts of hindrances which would not hamper the new leader. Consider all this, and then tell me whether I am too sanguine when I say that if the Theosophical Society survives and lives true to its mission, to its original impulses through the next hundred years-tell me, I say, if I go too far in asserting that earth will be a heaven in the twenty-first century in comparison with what it is now!"
A publication of
Canadian Theosophical Association (a regional association of the Theosophical Society in Adyar)
website: http://www.theosophical.ca
Note: This is found at the very end of Keys.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26th, 2005 07:22 pm |
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6th Post |
Anupadaka
Member
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Spiritualism
In order to understand HPB's relationship with spiritualism, we need to take a look at the state of spiritualism in the late 1800's. At that time, spiritualism (mainly holding seances) was all the rage. HPB herself was involved in the movement. Then, suddenly, HPB rejected spiritualism, shocking a lot of people. Backlash ensued. It was a mess, but HPB came out of it, and started the TS.
When we look at this history, it is easier to see where HPB was coming from, when she wrote against spiritualism. I agree with her. Holding seances has nothing to do with achieving Nirvana.
This book, in Chapter 4, "From Spiritualism to Theosophy" covers it quite nicely:
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26th, 2005 07:51 pm |
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7th Post |
Anupadaka
Member
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The Future of the Theosophical Society
Your quote reminds me of how the TS should not be a religion, but rather, a philosophy. The source of Theosophy is said to be the source of all religions. I think that keeping this in mind will help achieve the goals that HPB is talkng about.
I am also reminded of an important Theosophical concept: religions do not improve over time, they decay -- greed, etc., always take over the leaders. That is why the Divine Wisdom must be re-taught periodically. That is exactly what Theosophy is -- a re-teaching of the Divine Wisdom. I would say that the TS, in keeping with the re-teaching of the Divine Wisdom, has done quite well over the last 100+ years. Sure, there has been squabbling, but the message still remains pure, in my opinion. How many other religious organizations can say that?!
By the way, your quote can be found at:
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/key/key-conc.htm
Last edited on Wed Oct 26th, 2005 07:52 pm by Anupadaka
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27th, 2005 07:39 pm |
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8th Post |
Cosmeta
Administrator
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Anu...
In order to understand HPB's relationship with spiritualism, we need to take a look at the state of spiritualism in the late 1800's. At that time, spiritualism (mainly holding seances) was all the rage. HPB herself was involved in the movement. Then, suddenly, HPB rejected spiritualism, shocking a lot of people. Backlash ensued. It was a mess, but HPB came out of it, and started the TS.
When we look at this history, it is easier to see where HPB was coming from, when she wrote against spiritualism. I agree with her. Holding seances has nothing to do with achieving Nirvana.
Well, I think in the beginning she was only too pleased to get all the recognition and help she could get; but after awhile she realized that she did not want to be associated with all the fraud and parlor tricks. But you are right, in order to understand this, we have to understand the prevailing currents at the time. I am not sure that her goal was teaching about Nirvana, but she did have loftier ambitions in mind than seance' and mediumistic abilities. She wanted to get out higher ideals leading one to Wisdom and Truth. Sticking to parlor trickery will not lead one to either. Yes, I agree.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27th, 2005 07:52 pm |
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9th Post |
Anupadaka
Member
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Cosmeta-san!
You said, "I am not sure that her goal was teaching about Nirvana...."
--> What do you see as her goal? Do you believe in reincarnation? (If so, what do you see happening to yourself when the cycle finally ends....?)
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27th, 2005 08:31 pm |
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10th Post |
Cosmeta
Administrator
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Anu...
--> What do you see as her goal? Do you believe in reincarnation? (If so, what do you see happening to yourself when the cycle finally ends....?)
I think her ultimate goal was very similar to that of Christianities: To form one world-wide religion but in her case, she was desirous to see a religion based upon spiritual and higher metaphysical Truths. In my view, that's why she bunked heads with so many christians. They saw her as a threat, when in reality, she was not. In other words, it was not her intent, in my opinion to have Buddhism dominate the world. Rather, I saw her goal as trying to foster the Truths held in the esoteric buddhist teachings. And so, ultimately, I saw her goal as trying to enlighten the public at large about the ancient mysteries.
She was REVEALING SECRETS.
And nobody in organized religion wants that. imo
BTW, Check your Private Message box, please. No need to go to your email... just look up by your Login, and click on the item that says, Logged in as Anupadaka - 1 new message [Logout]
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27th, 2005 08:50 pm |
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11th Post |
Cosmeta
Administrator
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Anu...
The Future of the Theosophical Society
Your quote reminds me of how the TS should not be a religion, but rather, a philosophy. The source of Theosophy is said to be the source of all religions. I think that keeping this in mind will help achieve the goals that HPB is talkng about.
I am also reminded of an important Theosophical concept: religions do not improve over time, they decay -- greed, etc., always take over the leaders. That is why the Divine Wisdom must be re-taught periodically. That is exactly what Theosophy is -- a re-teaching of the Divine Wisdom. I would say that the TS, in keeping with the re-teaching of the Divine Wisdom, has done quite well over the last 100+ years. Sure, there has been squabbling, but the message still remains pure, in my opinion. How many other religious organizations can say that?!
Any religion will become corrupt over time, even Buddhism and yes, non-sectarian teachings once the original teachers and organizers of the group are no more.
I think what Blavatsky were claiming were that Mahattmah (sp) Buddhism was the oldest teachings brought down to man and therefore the purest. She was trying to revive an interest in that, and disclose those once highly held esoteric secrets to the fore.
The way I see it, our spirits, prior to becoming manifested as Man, knew everything there was to know about God and the universe; and in many respects we still do if we could but reach that state, and bring that knowledge down into manifestation. Well, I think Blavatsky recognized that the cycles of planetary rebirth were right for this reawakening, shall we say, and she became the forerunner of it.
IOW, She believed in the True Essence of Light.
IMO.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27th, 2005 10:53 pm |
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12th Post |
Anupadaka
Member
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I must say, it is wierd how the forum's javascript adds carriage returns, and forces us to remove them later....
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27th, 2005 11:00 pm |
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13th Post |
Anupadaka
Member
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Cosmeta-san!
Unfortunately, HPB was very much in the business of butting heads with Christians. And, I might add, she was very much justified in doing so. Yes, she was trying to show the oneness of all religions, and, yes, Christianity is part of that. However, sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade (a yuckky phrase, but the best one I can come up with), and HPB was always willing to do that. Modern Christianity has always had the philosophy of, "our way or the highway." That is NOT a part of the oneness of all religions (along with other unacceptable dogma), and someone has to be willing to stand up and say it. HPB was, and I am.
"Any religion will become corrupt over time, even Buddhism and yes, non-sectarian teachings once the original teachers and organizers of the group are no more.... She was trying to revive an interest in [the original teqachings], and disclose those once highly held esoteric secrets to the fore.
--> Exactly. That is why the teachings are re-released periodically, which is what HPB was doing.
"I think what Blavatsky [was] claiming [was] that Mahatma Buddhism was the oldest teachings brought down to man and therefore the purest."
--> It is a small point, but HPB was not teaching Buddhism. She said that Buddhism was the closest religion to what she taught, but that they were different.
"The way I see it, our spirits, prior to becoming manifested as Man, knew everything there was to know about God and the universe; and in many respects we still do if we could but reach that state, and bring that knowledge down into manifestation."
--> Enjoy the ride!
Last edited on Thu Oct 27th, 2005 11:12 pm by Anupadaka
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28th, 2005 04:14 pm |
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14th Post |
Cosmeta
Administrator
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I must say, it is wierd how the forum's javascript adds carriage returns, and forces us to remove them later....
Even weirder is the inability of this program to word wrap links. I hate it when the right margin goes out forever. It wouldn't be too bad if it were just one post... I could live with that, but the no-wrap seems to effect the entire thread, no matter if post were made before or after. I dont mind scrolling down, but having to scoll right is totally annoying. I dont think it the program that runs CosZ Shack perse' but rather the wysiwyg text editor. In either case, I don't have control over either. All I can do is attempt an edit to correct. And yes, in the interim, whenever I come across such things do actually report them to technical support. Hopefully, someday they will fix it. :o)
As to double spacing and carrige returns, I find it so much easier to write inside of a notepad or similar ascii text editor and then just copy it in. Thing is, we should not have to go through these extra steps. Anyway, thanks for the corrected links. Next, I will try to see if I can word wrap it somehow, (hopefully next time), without loosing your link as I did before. It just zapped it away, the moment I tried to break up the line. weird....
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28th, 2005 07:37 pm |
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15th Post |
Anupadaka
Member
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"Hopefully, someday they will fix it."
--> Wow, are you working off some really wierd karma, or what...?
Last edited on Fri Oct 28th, 2005 07:38 pm by Anupadaka
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29th, 2005 05:00 am |
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16th Post |
Cosmeta
Administrator
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Anu...
<------ Wow, are you working off some really wierd karma, or what...?
--->It's not my karma. ~smile.
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